I've been pretty much the most active kat in audio with only a half dozen others for the past few years. Consistently...month after month, season after season. I've seen how all activity works with basic open battles and events way...even More than staff has…and I've been saying this.
Okay, word...
Being able to enter any audio tournaments or league, or lba should be the incentive. .
Agreed. That's how it was designed. Thing is, the low activity makes doing this inconsistent. The League(s) are in place to keep activity going in the arena (rankings are kept seperatley) in the league to incentivize gunning for a title even when there aren't enough to do a bracketed tournament.
Since the battles are held in the arena, it also helps the quality of the rankings. Let's say a tournament pops off during PL or LB season, you have your most competitive/active people in prime position for a bracket tourney if it pops off.
Issue is the down months. In non-tourney months activity goes down outside of the leagues. The incentive should be battling, but the priority has shifted to qualifying/competing for titles because the overall userbase has been around long enough to know there's no prize at the end of a month/season in the rankings. Just bragging rights. At least you get something out of a monthly battle card and/or the weeklies (but imma agree that weeklies are a pain in the ass to manage even from my perspective)
Anyone who wants to enter an event needs to be actively ranked. Kats that don't actively participate in audio shouldn't be able to participate in events..
Sure man, GC used to be like that - there was a split between Basic Tourneys and Invitationals. I don't know where that went over the years, but it was cool.
Imo, to draw a hard line is placing an un-realistic expectation on the dwindling userbase. Like yeah, you're spot on with the idea. I remember back in the day, veterans would literally jump in, do 5 battles to go 5-0 to rank and qualify for the tournaments. That's really no different than now except the above-average userbase isn't even doing that much anymore.
I get the logic. That's how GC supposed to run. Ain't no way we can fill brackets to 16-even for the secondary titles though (Concept/Custom Beat/etc) - Text/Audio
It's only fair to the users that are actually active, battling and voting.
True. Overall quality of tournaments do suffer though. Vote and battle quality are at an all-time low. VP was flattened in Feb, then people just stopped voting. Battles hang open for week(s) at a time. OR MF's copy/paste vote expos for credits, drop their battle and leave.
Nowadays, grab the Top 16 in any given month. It's 1-3 heads shooting bots fr or arena rats that just snipe and aren't interested in more skilled opps - It reduces the value of a title if half the entrants don't even know how to find the tournament page.
It ain't necessary easy for everyone to come up with bars and record. It ain't text...you gotta actually spit. So for Kats to come off the bench, then bounce after it's done and not be active again till another event is wack AF.
Again, agreed - Staff can do better at regulating that - I think the intention is to actually have the most competitive event possible. I still think the overall quality (matches/events) suffer in the end.
It's only 5 battles....We can even make it 3 battles. Also voting should also be a part of it. Say at least 5 battles need to be voted on.
3 is def something to explore to see if it helps the incentivization of activity in general. I don't think competitors in leagues/tourneys should be able to compete if they don't vote on the event they're in (some exceptions like being in the same bracket).
Once it's the norm .. shit should be active AF.
I don't think it brings more battle volume, but it may encourage more logins
All around it would be better too. For example. If a new user has been actively open battling, and then there's a tournament. Then let's say a vet that hasn't battled in over a year and hasn't been active at all in audio, voting or anything, jumps in a tournament.
Now the vet is up against that new user. That battle would be way better if that vet WAS actively battling and voting prior to the tournament. Just personas are a huge factor...The vet in that scenario has an advantage if they just get to jump in events.
That's just one example…
Okay, so in this scenario, what helps the new user out? The problem is the user experience for new users 100%. Whether or not that vet is active or not doesn't retain new users OR incentivize improvement. The vets'll shoot bots.. always have, always will regardless of how active they are. Simply put, the new user starts trying to battle, they get rolled, they never come back. LOL there's actual whole accounts (bnas, Arch1e, etc) that have made a whole career out of sniping first timers... for their FIRST 5 BATTLES.
EOD, a Loss is a Loss, but let that be someones first 5 - they're not coming back. They're Basic Users, there's no chat visible. The forums aren't the main event anymore, so they don't even know where to communicate for - 10/10 they ain't coming back. Okay, they get Chat and they walk into whatever it is y'all chrip about - they learn nothing.
I'd used to be in the camp that would say "get good, keep grinding" but what else keeps a new user them trying to get the wins and/or improve?.. Let alone stick it out for the tournament where the Top 5% are just gonna stomp a mudhole in them.
There's no community at all. THAT is the problem to solve. It's fine that everyone went into business for themselvs, but it's also the downfall of what you're purposing.
I'm hoping it would get Kats that are actually good and have bars would start being active..that's the main reason for me to keep it real. Everything else it for the site to get active and Kats don't get to pop shit and enter events..💯
New users aren't allowed in tournaments right? So why should someone who's may have been active in the past, be allowed to jump in without being active first. It's a no brainier.
Again, I agree.. We're beating a dead horse with this line of thought though. LBA/Premier/Tournaments - we're happy to get 16 signups where 8 MAY show-up, so extra stipulations are just cutting into it all.
I actually agree with the sentiment, don't get me wrong.
Events should be for Kats that put in work. Not Kats that put in work years ago and are too cool to actively vote and battle, but will login to pop shit…I see that shit all the time. And I'm constantly calling them out…
What's the worst that can happen...it would be dead? 😆...It always dead. that's the problem. I know I wouldn't want to sit in the sidelines. And I purposely did to prove a point....it was a shitty event too and the off the bench kat wom easily too…smh. proved it but nobody sees it.
good points man - i don't diagree with most of it. i'm just trying to keep what i can moving. vets/no-vets , ranked/not-ranked - it's all pretty dead rn
i don't have any answers to some of these issues, nor do i have control over the variables such as # of votes/battles before ranking. i will say, there is a certain adaptation period involved with 5 battles (no idea if this as X's original intent of if it was just an arbitrary number). But, within the span of 5 battles (~4-15 days of time logging in to the site depending on when they drop and the last battle closing).. doesn't even seem like enough time to learn how to battle right (at least the lil LB metagame that's poppin, how votes work and should be done, etc.)
might have to see if admins will experiment wit that. who knows... i could be comepletely off.
#IfTheShoeFits
appreciate the details, i think i follow most of it man.
LBA's supposed to be a monthly card with iono 4-6 battles.
the activity part is inherent to the LBA itself (if you miss 2 cards, you're off it)
problem is, the transience of the userbase. it just doesn't pan out that way.
and with it being a title-driven monthly, we can't just "skip" a month, ya know?
if audio doesn't want it, we won't do it
all i know is LBT has been doing fine under the current format, but overall participation is at an all time low so there's that. @RhymeSmoke
I've been pretty much the most active kat in audio with only a half dozen others for the past few years. Consistently...month after month, season after season. I've seen how all activity works with basic open battles and events way...even More than staff has…and I've been saying this.
Okay, word...
Being able to enter any audio tournaments or league, or lba should be the incentive. .
Agreed. That's how it was designed. Thing is, the low activity makes doing this inconsistent. The League(s) are in place to keep activity going in the arena (rankings are kept seperatley) in the league to incentivize gunning for a title even when there aren't enough to do a bracketed tournament.
Since the battles are held in the arena, it also helps the quality of the rankings. Let's say a tournament pops off during PL or LB season, you have your most competitive/active people in prime position for a bracket tourney if it pops off.
Issue is the down months. In non-tourney months activity goes down outside of the leagues. The incentive should be battling, but the priority has shifted to qualifying/competing for titles because the overall userbase has been around long enough to know there's no prize at the end of a month/season in the rankings. Just bragging rights. At least you get something out of a monthly battle card and/or the weeklies (but imma agree that weeklies are a pain in the ass to manage even from my perspective)
Anyone who wants to enter an event needs to be actively ranked. Kats that don't actively participate in audio shouldn't be able to participate in events..
Sure man, GC used to be like that - there was a split between Basic Tourneys and Invitationals. I don't know where that went over the years, but it was cool.
Imo, to draw a hard line is placing an un-realistic expectation on the dwindling userbase. Like yeah, you're spot on with the idea. I remember back in the day, veterans would literally jump in, do 5 battles to go 5-0 to rank and qualify for the tournaments. That's really no different than now except the above-average userbase isn't even doing that much anymore.
I get the logic. That's how GC supposed to run. Ain't no way we can fill brackets to 16-even for the secondary titles though (Concept/Custom Beat/etc) - Text/Audio
It's only fair to the users that are actually active, battling and voting.
True. Overall quality of tournaments do suffer though. Vote and battle quality are at an all-time low. VP was flattened in Feb, then people just stopped voting. Battles hang open for week(s) at a time. OR MF's copy/paste vote expos for credits, drop their battle and leave.
Nowadays, grab the Top 16 in any given month. It's 1-3 heads shooting bots fr or arena rats that just snipe and aren't interested in more skilled opps - It reduces the value of a title if half the entrants don't even know how to find the tournament page.
It ain't necessary easy for everyone to come up with bars and record. It ain't text...you gotta actually spit. So for Kats to come off the bench, then bounce after it's done and not be active again till another event is wack AF.
Again, agreed - Staff can do better at regulating that - I think the intention is to actually have the most competitive event possible. I still think the overall quality (matches/events) suffer in the end.
It's only 5 battles....We can even make it 3 battles. Also voting should also be a part of it. Say at least 5 battles need to be voted on.
3 is def something to explore to see if it helps the incentivization of activity in general. I don't think competitors in leagues/tourneys should be able to compete if they don't vote on the event they're in (some exceptions like being in the same bracket).
Once it's the norm .. shit should be active AF.
I don't think it brings more battle volume, but it may encourage more logins
All around it would be better too. For example. If a new user has been actively open battling, and then there's a tournament. Then let's say a vet that hasn't battled in over a year and hasn't been active at all in audio, voting or anything, jumps in a tournament.
Now the vet is up against that new user. That battle would be way better if that vet WAS actively battling and voting prior to the tournament. Just personas are a huge factor...The vet in that scenario has an advantage if they just get to jump in events.
That's just one example…
Okay, so in this scenario, what helps the new user out? The problem is the user experience for new users 100%. Whether or not that vet is active or not doesn't retain new users OR incentivize improvement. The vets'll shoot bots.. always have, always will regardless of how active they are. Simply put, the new user starts trying to battle, they get rolled, they never come back. LOL there's actual whole accounts (bnas, Arch1e, etc) that have made a whole career out of sniping first timers... for their FIRST 5 BATTLES.
EOD, a Loss is a Loss, but let that be someones first 5 - they're not coming back. They're Basic Users, there's no chat visible. The forums aren't the main event anymore, so they don't even know where to communicate for - 10/10 they ain't coming back. Okay, they get Chat and they walk into whatever it is y'all chrip about - they learn nothing.
I'd used to be in the camp that would say "get good, keep grinding" but what else keeps a new user them trying to get the wins and/or improve?.. Let alone stick it out for the tournament where the Top 5% are just gonna stomp a mudhole in them.
There's no community at all. THAT is the problem to solve. It's fine that everyone went into business for themselvs, but it's also the downfall of what you're purposing.
I'm hoping it would get Kats that are actually good and have bars would start being active..that's the main reason for me to keep it real. Everything else it for the site to get active and Kats don't get to pop shit and enter events..💯
New users aren't allowed in tournaments right? So why should someone who's may have been active in the past, be allowed to jump in without being active first. It's a no brainier.
Again, I agree.. We're beating a dead horse with this line of thought though. LBA/Premier/Tournaments - we're happy to get 16 signups where 8 MAY show-up, so extra stipulations are just cutting into it all.
I actually agree with the sentiment, don't get me wrong.
Events should be for Kats that put in work. Not Kats that put in work years ago and are too cool to actively vote and battle, but will login to pop shit…I see that shit all the time. And I'm constantly calling them out…
What's the worst that can happen...it would be dead? 😆...It always dead. that's the problem. I know I wouldn't want to sit in the sidelines. And I purposely did to prove a point....it was a shitty event too and the off the bench kat wom easily too…smh. proved it but nobody sees it.
good points man - i don't diagree with most of it. i'm just trying to keep what i can moving. vets/no-vets , ranked/not-ranked - it's all pretty dead rn
i don't have any answers to some of these issues, nor do i have control over the variables such as # of votes/battles before ranking. i will say, there is a certain adaptation period involved with 5 battles (no idea if this as X's original intent of if it was just an arbitrary number). But, within the span of 5 battles (~4-15 days of time logging in to the site depending on when they drop and the last battle closing).. doesn't even seem like enough time to learn how to battle right (at least the lil LB metagame that's poppin, how votes work and should be done, etc.)
might have to see if admins will experiment wit that. who knows... i could be comepletely off.
#IfTheShoeFits
appreciate the details, i think i follow most of it man.
LBA's supposed to be a monthly card with iono 4-6 battles.
the activity part is inherent to the LBA itself (if you miss 2 cards, you're off it)
problem is, the transience of the userbase. it just doesn't pan out that way.
and with it being a title-driven monthly, we can't just "skip" a month, ya know?
if audio doesn't want it, we won't do it
all i know is LBT has been doing fine under the current format, but overall participation is at an all time low so there's that. @RhymeSmoke
appreciate the details, i think i follow most of it man.
LBA's supposed to be a monthly card with iono 4-6 battles.
the activity part is inherent to the LBA itself (if you miss 2 cards, you're off it)
problem is, the transience of the userbase. it just doesn't pan out that way.
and with it being a title-driven monthly, we can't just "skip" a month, ya know?
if audio doesn't want it, we won't do it
all i know is LBT has been doing fine under the current format, but overall participation is at an all time low so there's that. @RhymeSmoke
-Rhet
No disrespect..but my whole reply was just about Kats havin actively battle and vote before they can enter an audio event. Seems like you agreed but it won't be done. You tried to break it all down scientifically to why you don't think it would work it seems. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but ..
That's what's been happening. Some staff mostly admin thinks they know what works and what doesn't. It's funny too, because all my ideas get shut down. Then months down the line something gets implemented like it was their idea. Seems like Every excuse is made to not try something different...is because it's dead or because it's been a rule from 15 years ago. But it's always usually dead, That's the problem. And again what's the worst thing that would happen if users have to be active to enter an audio event? Nothing ... either they do it or don't. I bet those who do though won't no show..
It's literally a rule on the front page for GC too.top members can enter. I know that really don't matter but I'm just sayin. Even like the other old rap forums websites for audio. You had to comment or judge two other audios to be able to drop your audio in a post. And yeah it is forcing users to battle and vote.
But who cares. If you ain't here battling and votin..what else is there to even do on here? Talkin shit, hatin, and trollin..that's it. Even the forums ain't even a forum anymore. It hasn't been for years. I even tried to boost the forum by posting the freestyle videos and shit. But that's y'all job ..it all starts with staff.
Just like I've told Odin dozens of times about changes. All you gotta do is do it. And again..this shit ain't about me. Its about the site growin and havin better battles.. Just like I get banned for wantin to fix the VP., then months later..y'all change it. Or wanting to have beats for lba...had a huge argument with Odin..now there's a poll for beats. I'm with it, but like cmon...shits funny. . 💯.
Oh and again lba doesn't have to be like lbt as far as the amount of battles or whatever...
appreciate the details, i think i follow most of it man.
LBA's supposed to be a monthly card with iono 4-6 battles.
the activity part is inherent to the LBA itself (if you miss 2 cards, you're off it)
problem is, the transience of the userbase. it just doesn't pan out that way.
and with it being a title-driven monthly, we can't just "skip" a month, ya know?
if audio doesn't want it, we won't do it
all i know is LBT has been doing fine under the current format, but overall participation is at an all time low so there's that. @RhymeSmoke
-Rhet
No disrespect..but my whole reply was just about Kats havin actively battle and vote before they can enter an audio event. Seems like you agreed but it won't be done. You tried to break it all down scientifically to why you don't think it would work it seems. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but ..
That's what's been happening. Some staff mostly admin thinks they know what works and what doesn't. It's funny too, because all my ideas get shut down. Then months down the line something gets implemented like it was their idea. Seems like Every excuse is made to not try something different...is because it's dead or because it's been a rule from 15 years ago. But it's always usually dead, That's the problem. And again what's the worst thing that would happen if users have to be active to enter an audio event? Nothing ... either they do it or don't. I bet those who do though won't no show..
It's literally a rule on the front page for GC too.top members can enter. I know that really don't matter but I'm just sayin. Even like the other old rap forums websites for audio. You had to comment or judge two other audios to be able to drop your audio in a post. And yeah it is forcing users to battle and vote.
But who cares. If you ain't here battling and votin..what else is there to even do on here? Talkin shit, hatin, and trollin..that's it. Even the forums ain't even a forum anymore. It hasn't been for years. I even tried to boost the forum by posting the freestyle videos and shit. But that's y'all job ..it all starts with staff.
Just like I've told Odin dozens of times about changes. All you gotta do is do it. And again..this shit ain't about me. Its about the site growin and havin better battles.. Just like I get banned for wantin to fix the VP., then months later..y'all change it. Or wanting to have beats for lba...had a huge argument with Odin..now there's a poll for beats. I'm with it, but like cmon...shits funny. . 💯.
Oh and again lba doesn't have to be like lbt as far as the amount of battles or whatever...
No disrespect..but my whole reply was just about Kats havin actively battle and vote before they can enter an audio event. Seems like you agreed but it won't be done. You tried to break it all down scientifically to why you don't think it would work it seems. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but ..
That's what's been happening. Some staff mostly admin thinks they know what works and what doesn't. It's funny too, because all my ideas get shut down. Then months down the line something gets implemented like it was their idea. Seems like Every excuse is made to not try something different...is because it's dead or because it's been a rule from 15 years ago. But it's always usually dead, That's the problem. And again what's the worst thing that would happen if users have to be active to enter an audio event? Nothing ... either they do it or don't. I bet those who do though won't no show..
It's literally a rule on the front page for GC too.top members can enter. I know that really don't matter but I'm just sayin. Even like the other old rap forums websites for audio. You had to comment or judge two other audios to be able to drop your audio in a post. And yeah it is forcing users to battle and vote.
But who cares. If you ain't here battling and votin..what else is there to even do on here? Talkin shit, hatin, and trollin..that's it. Even the forums ain't even a forum anymore. It hasn't been for years. I even tried to boost the forum by posting the freestyle videos and shit. But that's y'all job ..it all starts with staff.
Just like I've told Odin dozens of times about changes. All you gotta do is do it. And again..this shit ain't about me. Its about the site growin and havin better battles.. Just like I get banned for wantin to fix the VP., then months later..y'all change it. Or wanting to have beats for lba...had a huge argument with Odin..now there's a poll for beats. I'm with it, but like cmon...shits funny. . 💯.
Oh and again lba doesn't have to be like lbt as far as the amount of battles or whatever...
You def read my message wrong. I'm speaking from experience as well and talking through it. (or at least trying to...) There ain't nothing scientific about it. Sites dead, copy.
All I can do is try to put together cards/tournaments/events with what we got and keep it organized. I'm basically in the same situation as you.
You have very valid opinions and ideas. You just present them in a weird, backhanded way that gets you ignored. (Like who hurt you, for real? lmao). I wasn't here for all of the backstory, nor do I really care to recap because it doesn't help anything moving forward.
Shit, at least you care enough to weigh in on shit.
No disrespect..but my whole reply was just about Kats havin actively battle and vote before they can enter an audio event. Seems like you agreed but it won't be done. You tried to break it all down scientifically to why you don't think it would work it seems. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but ..
That's what's been happening. Some staff mostly admin thinks they know what works and what doesn't. It's funny too, because all my ideas get shut down. Then months down the line something gets implemented like it was their idea. Seems like Every excuse is made to not try something different...is because it's dead or because it's been a rule from 15 years ago. But it's always usually dead, That's the problem. And again what's the worst thing that would happen if users have to be active to enter an audio event? Nothing ... either they do it or don't. I bet those who do though won't no show..
It's literally a rule on the front page for GC too.top members can enter. I know that really don't matter but I'm just sayin. Even like the other old rap forums websites for audio. You had to comment or judge two other audios to be able to drop your audio in a post. And yeah it is forcing users to battle and vote.
But who cares. If you ain't here battling and votin..what else is there to even do on here? Talkin shit, hatin, and trollin..that's it. Even the forums ain't even a forum anymore. It hasn't been for years. I even tried to boost the forum by posting the freestyle videos and shit. But that's y'all job ..it all starts with staff.
Just like I've told Odin dozens of times about changes. All you gotta do is do it. And again..this shit ain't about me. Its about the site growin and havin better battles.. Just like I get banned for wantin to fix the VP., then months later..y'all change it. Or wanting to have beats for lba...had a huge argument with Odin..now there's a poll for beats. I'm with it, but like cmon...shits funny. . 💯.
Oh and again lba doesn't have to be like lbt as far as the amount of battles or whatever...
You def read my message wrong. I'm speaking from experience as well and talking through it. (or at least trying to...) There ain't nothing scientific about it. Sites dead, copy.
All I can do is try to put together cards/tournaments/events with what we got and keep it organized. I'm basically in the same situation as you.
You have very valid opinions and ideas. You just present them in a weird, backhanded way that gets you ignored. (Like who hurt you, for real? lmao). I wasn't here for all of the backstory, nor do I really care to recap because it doesn't help anything moving forward.
Shit, at least you care enough to weigh in on shit.
An Admin after my own heart lol.. new member to the LB scene as of today but good to see active thinking admins/mods regarding activity on hip hop forums. as a former RMC Admin it warms my heart to see this sort of forum alive and well. I'll be sure to spread the word to those I know and send them here. I'm also down to take part in a few battles in the league depending on the verse due dates etc. Keep up the good work and keep us updated.
An Admin after my own heart lol.. new member to the LB scene as of today but good to see active thinking admins/mods regarding activity on hip hop forums. as a former RMC Admin it warms my heart to see this sort of forum alive and well. I'll be sure to spread the word to those I know and send them here. I'm also down to take part in a few battles in the league depending on the verse due dates etc. Keep up the good work and keep us updated.
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