Question...especially for the Non American members

[Esso]

I know there’s a lot of the member base that doesn’t live in the US so I wanna ask y’all this...

If an American (or anyone else) makes a punch that’s based on a concept rooted in American (or their native) culture, pop, sports, customs, etc that might not apply or be well known in your country, how much does it affect how you judge the bar? Do you look at the craftsmanship of the bar and look into the concept to judge it accordingly or do you just look at it as not hitting because the topic matter isn’t familiar?

[Esso]

I know there’s a lot of the member base that doesn’t live in the US so I wanna ask y’all this...

If an American (or anyone else) makes a punch that’s based on a concept rooted in American (or their native) culture, pop, sports, customs, etc that might not apply or be well known in your country, how much does it affect how you judge the bar? Do you look at the craftsmanship of the bar and look into the concept to judge it accordingly or do you just look at it as not hitting because the topic matter isn’t familiar?

[Edgeworth]

The way I’ve always looked at it is “reasonable expectation”. For instance, if you reference the Toronto Raptors winning the NBA title, I think you have reasonable expectations that people are gonna know what that is, even if some people over in Europe or somewhere else end up not. Whereas referencing some super obscure player that even NBA fans barely remember where one game he scored 9 points in a college game, obviously doesn’t fall under reasonable expectation.

It’s kind of hard to define what reasonable expectation is since inherently there’s going to be those cultural biases baked into it, but a lot of times it’s super obvious. I’m in the camp that even if I haven’t heard of something, I’ll assess the bar how it’s written and take that into account while also checking out the reference and determining if I could have been “reasonably expected” to know that reference.

I definitely don’t fuck with the crowd that goes “fuck you I know all the cool things so if I haven’t heard of your thing then it just isn’t cool and you suck”. There’s quite a few and they kinda just sound like Trump to me with that shit. Lmao.

[Edgeworth]

The way I’ve always looked at it is “reasonable expectation”. For instance, if you reference the Toronto Raptors winning the NBA title, I think you have reasonable expectations that people are gonna know what that is, even if some people over in Europe or somewhere else end up not. Whereas referencing some super obscure player that even NBA fans barely remember where one game he scored 9 points in a college game, obviously doesn’t fall under reasonable expectation.

It’s kind of hard to define what reasonable expectation is since inherently there’s going to be those cultural biases baked into it, but a lot of times it’s super obvious. I’m in the camp that even if I haven’t heard of something, I’ll assess the bar how it’s written and take that into account while also checking out the reference and determining if I could have been “reasonably expected” to know that reference.

I definitely don’t fuck with the crowd that goes “fuck you I know all the cool things so if I haven’t heard of your thing then it just isn’t cool and you suck”. There’s quite a few and they kinda just sound like Trump to me with that shit. Lmao.

[RULE]

I find usually i can tell what the reference is without knowing the reference at all.

Someone wrote a bar the other day which referenced a sports team moving to play in another city. Obviously i knew nothing about it but i knew what the writer meant and assumed the reference would be correct if googled it.

So short version: Yes it always effects my view of the bar a bit if dont understand the theme but good writing mixed with expo can usually get me there anyway.

And when i write i think the same about non-european readers. If i think the reference is too obscure i wont use it. I find most people dont read the expos (or the impact is lessened by the time they do) so i tend to not use bars like that.


1/

[RULE]

I find usually i can tell what the reference is without knowing the reference at all.

Someone wrote a bar the other day which referenced a sports team moving to play in another city. Obviously i knew nothing about it but i knew what the writer meant and assumed the reference would be correct if googled it.

So short version: Yes it always effects my view of the bar a bit if dont understand the theme but good writing mixed with expo can usually get me there anyway.

And when i write i think the same about non-european readers. If i think the reference is too obscure i wont use it. I find most people dont read the expos (or the impact is lessened by the time they do) so i tend to not use bars like that.


1/

[EtH]

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

[EtH]

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by EtH

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

Based on this response, Im assuming you’re talking about me? Lock hasn’t posted on this thread

I know this was just an example, but on a side note of course I actually know who rakitic is. I don’t watch a lot of soccer but I play tons of FIFA. And even if I hadn’t? Rakitic would definitely fall under reasonable expectation for the reasons you stated.

But anyway, no, this just isn’t true. I always give bars a fair shake. If I’ve ever voted on a bar saying it was obscure, that’s after doing my (even if it’s just 30 seconds) research. Part of your mentality of “fuck your expo if I don’t get it off rip it sucks” inherently has the assumption that “I know all cool things so if I don’t know your thing it isn’t cool” baked into it.

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by EtH

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

Based on this response, Im assuming you’re talking about me? Lock hasn’t posted on this thread

I know this was just an example, but on a side note of course I actually know who rakitic is. I don’t watch a lot of soccer but I play tons of FIFA. And even if I hadn’t? Rakitic would definitely fall under reasonable expectation for the reasons you stated.

But anyway, no, this just isn’t true. I always give bars a fair shake. If I’ve ever voted on a bar saying it was obscure, that’s after doing my (even if it’s just 30 seconds) research. Part of your mentality of “fuck your expo if I don’t get it off rip it sucks” inherently has the assumption that “I know all cool things so if I don’t know your thing it isn’t cool” baked into it.

[Esso]

Originally Posted by EtH

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

Haha....still sorry about that. Larsson and Rakitic are well known but I definitely get your point. I felt like this a while back...pretty much fuck an expo. If I need you to help me get something, you as the writer didn’t do your job. But then I started seeing the number of Harry Potter, Pokémon, and DBZ bars that I knew nothing about and figured I’d at least look up some of the stuff before just blowing it off as nerdy bullshit.

---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

The way I’ve always looked at it is “reasonable expectation”. For instance, if you reference the Toronto Raptors winning the NBA title, I think you have reasonable expectations that people are gonna know what that is, even if some people over in Europe or somewhere else end up not. Whereas referencing some super obscure player that even NBA fans barely remember where one game he scored 9 points in a college game, obviously doesn’t fall under reasonable expectation.

It’s kind of hard to define what reasonable expectation is since inherently there’s going to be those cultural biases baked into it, but a lot of times it’s super obvious. I’m in the camp that even if I haven’t heard of something, I’ll assess the bar how it’s written and take that into account while also checking out the reference and determining if I could have been “reasonably expected” to know that reference.

I definitely don’t fuck with the crowd that goes “fuck you I know all the cool things so if I haven’t heard of your thing then it just isn’t cool and you suck”. There’s quite a few and they kinda just sound like Trump to me with that shit. Lmao.

Haha...not gonna break out any Smush Parker punches or nothing. But TV, commercials...stuff like that. I’ll be watching TV and think of something fire and then think ‘Nobody’s watching this outside the US....how’s it gonna go over?’ Ive scrapped a few ideas because of that and really wish I didn’t have to which is what led me to asking the crowd.

[Esso]

Originally Posted by EtH

Lock you say that, but if I spit a dope line about Rakitic you wont know won't get ot and it'll ruin the line for you,even though he's a star player in one of the most famous sports teams in history.

I immediately don't rate it if I don't get it. In a live battle I'm not googling your bars ot reading your expo, and that wipes away all impact when I need to leave and research.

So whether or not you'll out the nine on my back like Tom Brady, I don't care. Just like you don't care about the 9 on your back like Henrik Larsson. Just like yous don't care about what rank shodan is in black belt heirarchy and fuck up battles......

Haha....still sorry about that. Larsson and Rakitic are well known but I definitely get your point. I felt like this a while back...pretty much fuck an expo. If I need you to help me get something, you as the writer didn’t do your job. But then I started seeing the number of Harry Potter, Pokémon, and DBZ bars that I knew nothing about and figured I’d at least look up some of the stuff before just blowing it off as nerdy bullshit.

---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

The way I’ve always looked at it is “reasonable expectation”. For instance, if you reference the Toronto Raptors winning the NBA title, I think you have reasonable expectations that people are gonna know what that is, even if some people over in Europe or somewhere else end up not. Whereas referencing some super obscure player that even NBA fans barely remember where one game he scored 9 points in a college game, obviously doesn’t fall under reasonable expectation.

It’s kind of hard to define what reasonable expectation is since inherently there’s going to be those cultural biases baked into it, but a lot of times it’s super obvious. I’m in the camp that even if I haven’t heard of something, I’ll assess the bar how it’s written and take that into account while also checking out the reference and determining if I could have been “reasonably expected” to know that reference.

I definitely don’t fuck with the crowd that goes “fuck you I know all the cool things so if I haven’t heard of your thing then it just isn’t cool and you suck”. There’s quite a few and they kinda just sound like Trump to me with that shit. Lmao.

Haha...not gonna break out any Smush Parker punches or nothing. But TV, commercials...stuff like that. I’ll be watching TV and think of something fire and then think ‘Nobody’s watching this outside the US....how’s it gonna go over?’ Ive scrapped a few ideas because of that and really wish I didn’t have to which is what led me to asking the crowd.

[FiNAL WoRD]

if I'm being 100 100.. If I don't get the bar I can usually make sense of it (like RULE said) but it deff takes away the impact for me as I shouldn't really have to google something to get it

pat stay said it best "See you think your rhymes go over people's heads that that makes you so smart and technical..No that makes you dumb for not being able to make the shit more accessible"

[FiNAL WoRD]

if I'm being 100 100.. If I don't get the bar I can usually make sense of it (like RULE said) but it deff takes away the impact for me as I shouldn't really have to google something to get it

pat stay said it best "See you think your rhymes go over people's heads that that makes you so smart and technical..No that makes you dumb for not being able to make the shit more accessible"

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

Based on this response, Im assuming you’re talking about me? Lock hasn’t posted on this thread

I know this was just an example, but on a side note of course I actually know who rakitic is. I don’t watch a lot of soccer but I play tons of FIFA. And even if I hadn’t? Rakitic would definitely fall under reasonable expectation for the reasons you stated.

But anyway, no, this just isn’t true. I always give bars a fair shake. If I’ve ever voted on a bar saying it was obscure, that’s after doing my (even if it’s just 30 seconds) research. Part of your mentality of “fuck your expo if I don’t get it off rip it sucks” inherently has the assumption that “I know all cool things so if I don’t know your thing it isn’t cool” baked into it.

So you're telling me if you don't get a joke at a comedy club it's just as funny when you google it on the ride home? There's immediate impact. Make me know what you're talking about in your bars. Obscurity is a trade off. One of my favourite disses in Dont Flop was "You look like that little gnome in Golden Axe that I have to kick to get my potion back". That's obscure as fuck. Fidel sure as fuck doesn't get a Golden Axe reference. But its funny to me as I get what its from.

Its a trade-off. You use bars you deliberately know a portion of the audience wont get, you cant be annoyed when they tell you they don't get it.

[EtH]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

Based on this response, Im assuming you’re talking about me? Lock hasn’t posted on this thread

I know this was just an example, but on a side note of course I actually know who rakitic is. I don’t watch a lot of soccer but I play tons of FIFA. And even if I hadn’t? Rakitic would definitely fall under reasonable expectation for the reasons you stated.

But anyway, no, this just isn’t true. I always give bars a fair shake. If I’ve ever voted on a bar saying it was obscure, that’s after doing my (even if it’s just 30 seconds) research. Part of your mentality of “fuck your expo if I don’t get it off rip it sucks” inherently has the assumption that “I know all cool things so if I don’t know your thing it isn’t cool” baked into it.

So you're telling me if you don't get a joke at a comedy club it's just as funny when you google it on the ride home? There's immediate impact. Make me know what you're talking about in your bars. Obscurity is a trade off. One of my favourite disses in Dont Flop was "You look like that little gnome in Golden Axe that I have to kick to get my potion back". That's obscure as fuck. Fidel sure as fuck doesn't get a Golden Axe reference. But its funny to me as I get what its from.

Its a trade-off. You use bars you deliberately know a portion of the audience wont get, you cant be annoyed when they tell you they don't get it.

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by EtH

So you're telling me if you don't get a joke at a comedy club it's just as funny when you google it on the ride home? There's immediate impact. Make me know what you're talking about in your bars. Obscurity is a trade off. One of my favourite disses in Dont Flop was "You look like that little gnome in Golden Axe that I have to kick to get my potion back". That's obscure as fuck. Fidel sure as fuck doesn't get a Golden Axe reference. But its funny to me as I get what its from.

Its a trade-off. You use bars you deliberately know a portion of the audience wont get, you cant be annoyed when they tell you they don't get it.

Yes, I agree. Of course I’m gonna react to a bar better reading it and I get off the rip versus having to fact check it or whatever. The point I’m trying to make is just that as far as shitting on someone for their references, I think the appropriate approach is more to try and look at it like was that reference actually obscure, or do I just not personally know anything about that shit. For instance, I spoke with Shodan one time and he didn’t know who The Rock was. Would it be fair for him to then call a reference to The Rock obscure? That’s all I kinda mean. Just some more sensibility to it versus just blanket booing anything you’ve never heard of.

To your point and Esso’s point, I agree, there’s definitely a lot of different ages, nationalities, backgrounds, etc on LB so you have to make trade offs at certain points, of course. You can say know your audience but the audience on LB is so random and varied that it’s almost impossible to have something everyone’s gonna know (besides very obvious stuff). I’ve written a handful of bars in the past that I know maybe 2 people will get, I just did them because I thought they were hilarious or I just wanted to do them. I’d never be mad because MC KG (where he at anyway) didn’t get my Beast Wars punch, because I wouldn’t expect him to. And I don’t think anyone should take issues with anything like that. I just think there’s stuff that’s reasonable to expect people to be aware of (The Rock as per above for example) and shitting on those is kinda weak.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ----------

Originally Posted by FiNAL WoRD

if I'm being 100 100.. If I don't get the bar I can usually make sense of it (like RULE said) but it deff takes away the impact for me as I shouldn't really have to google something to get it

pat stay said it best "See you think your rhymes go over people's heads that that makes you so smart and technical..No that makes you dumb for not being able to make the shit more accessible"

Haha for sure. That quote pretty much sums up every Lizman verse ever (though I don’t think Lizman even knows what he’s talking about either)

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by EtH

So you're telling me if you don't get a joke at a comedy club it's just as funny when you google it on the ride home? There's immediate impact. Make me know what you're talking about in your bars. Obscurity is a trade off. One of my favourite disses in Dont Flop was "You look like that little gnome in Golden Axe that I have to kick to get my potion back". That's obscure as fuck. Fidel sure as fuck doesn't get a Golden Axe reference. But its funny to me as I get what its from.

Its a trade-off. You use bars you deliberately know a portion of the audience wont get, you cant be annoyed when they tell you they don't get it.

Yes, I agree. Of course I’m gonna react to a bar better reading it and I get off the rip versus having to fact check it or whatever. The point I’m trying to make is just that as far as shitting on someone for their references, I think the appropriate approach is more to try and look at it like was that reference actually obscure, or do I just not personally know anything about that shit. For instance, I spoke with Shodan one time and he didn’t know who The Rock was. Would it be fair for him to then call a reference to The Rock obscure? That’s all I kinda mean. Just some more sensibility to it versus just blanket booing anything you’ve never heard of.

To your point and Esso’s point, I agree, there’s definitely a lot of different ages, nationalities, backgrounds, etc on LB so you have to make trade offs at certain points, of course. You can say know your audience but the audience on LB is so random and varied that it’s almost impossible to have something everyone’s gonna know (besides very obvious stuff). I’ve written a handful of bars in the past that I know maybe 2 people will get, I just did them because I thought they were hilarious or I just wanted to do them. I’d never be mad because MC KG (where he at anyway) didn’t get my Beast Wars punch, because I wouldn’t expect him to. And I don’t think anyone should take issues with anything like that. I just think there’s stuff that’s reasonable to expect people to be aware of (The Rock as per above for example) and shitting on those is kinda weak.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ----------

Originally Posted by FiNAL WoRD

if I'm being 100 100.. If I don't get the bar I can usually make sense of it (like RULE said) but it deff takes away the impact for me as I shouldn't really have to google something to get it

pat stay said it best "See you think your rhymes go over people's heads that that makes you so smart and technical..No that makes you dumb for not being able to make the shit more accessible"

Haha for sure. That quote pretty much sums up every Lizman verse ever (though I don’t think Lizman even knows what he’s talking about either)

sports aside, i've had a lot of problems, with getting reactions from my refferences, things like history bars, or bars about famous paintings, or video games i like, and the problem is, i'm not into boxing, or actual popular content that a lot of others life, so i constantly feel like i'm fighting with a handicap, the reason why i mention this, is because in that same token, when i'm voting a lot of bars don't hit for me, because i don't relate to the subject matter

take for instance this bar.

This how u do it: He's weak as fuck! so the hands-rockin this mans-noggin till DUDES GOT SOME FLASHIN PICTURES, Won't fight back! only see him "Collect n Cross 'bows w/ an Animal" if it's CHEWBACCA ACTION FIGURES!!!

this could be a dope punch for a star wars fan but for me i don't feel it. where as with this bar:

That's why I'm here. This'll be his final battle now that I've BROKEN this FAGGOT DOWN, that means I've brought "Good to the Last Drop" like SLOGANS for MAXWELL HOUSE!!!

i def drank a lot of this brand, and i get the punch, and it made me lol

i have to say that relevance with a punch is pretty important

sports aside, i've had a lot of problems, with getting reactions from my refferences, things like history bars, or bars about famous paintings, or video games i like, and the problem is, i'm not into boxing, or actual popular content that a lot of others life, so i constantly feel like i'm fighting with a handicap, the reason why i mention this, is because in that same token, when i'm voting a lot of bars don't hit for me, because i don't relate to the subject matter

take for instance this bar.

This how u do it: He's weak as fuck! so the hands-rockin this mans-noggin till DUDES GOT SOME FLASHIN PICTURES, Won't fight back! only see him "Collect n Cross 'bows w/ an Animal" if it's CHEWBACCA ACTION FIGURES!!!

this could be a dope punch for a star wars fan but for me i don't feel it. where as with this bar:

That's why I'm here. This'll be his final battle now that I've BROKEN this FAGGOT DOWN, that means I've brought "Good to the Last Drop" like SLOGANS for MAXWELL HOUSE!!!

i def drank a lot of this brand, and i get the punch, and it made me lol

i have to say that relevance with a punch is pretty important