Need feedback?.. Wanna train? I gotchu.

[Skizzo]

@Brayne Ded

Ok, ive now read the verse four times and I found a few areas that I wanted to pick apart for you. Ima do this one bar for bar and explain everything as we go.


I said look... Y'all better "Pray For Auto," I'm 'bout ta kill him; I "Swear To GOD" I BELIEVE IT!

These are the kinds of lines that I wanted to specifically pick apart. The reason that this line was lackluster and really missed the mark entirely, is because you are using extremely basic wordplay / setup connections leading into some really great ideas as punchline references.. But they miss the mark solely because the setup itself is so weak and unoriginal that it makes it almost cringe at how basic it was. Yall better pray for him.. And swear to god I believe it.. The wordplay setup wasnt even the most basic of homonyms and provided nothing to cleverly flip the oncoming punchline you were aiming for. As far as opening statement and thesis goes though, you hit the mark there showing us who and what you were talking about so that did well to set the tone. The problem is that is was just a weak concept in and of itself.



He be makin' the call to "Make A Wish" to "stop the sick teen/ sixteen" and COP HIM A TREATMENT!


The sixteen oronym was okay, but shaky in the fact that its pronounces Sicks-Teen, so that threw it off slightly as an oronym in pronounciation. That alone would be enough to weigh down the effectiveness of the punchline, but on top of that, you have an extremely long winded and unnecessary length of setup leading into the wordplay itself. So that adds to drag out the length between multis and also is killing your flow due to too much filler in the setups / wordplays. Also, on top of all that, yet another extremely basic flip as the punchline "treatment". All those things put together just make the entire line read extremely choppy in flow as well as weak within actual concepts.



Wait. Dude "Been In The Game" since '09? But still hasn't "GOT AN ACHIEVEMENT?" Punches'll "Put Him Out His Misery & Have His Head Bobbin'" 'til him and everyone readin' NODS IN AGREEMENT!


See thats what I mean, head bobbin, nods in agreement.. The simplicity in your concepts is what I honestly think is your worst enemy. You have a good handle of multis, and you have a really good structure in these bars, but that simplicity man.. Its horrendous. Your main objective in training to become better would be to work on complexity. And that, is mainly going to be focusing on making better flips from wordplay to punchline reference training.


Fuck an "L," dude jus' "Autographhed His Death Certificate" and CAUGHT A BEREAVEMENT! 'Cause "When I Snap?" Auto "Fumbles His Lines!" Nothing he's DROPPIN' BEEN DECENT!"


Nowwww we finally get to the football "snap" and fumble line.. Which is so hidden under the simplicity of the punchline reference yet again.. That most people wouldnt even notice it. Because instead of prividing an amazing ounchline referemce here.. You just end it with.. Nothing hes dropping has been decent... Way too much simplicity for such a great concept that had that much potential.


When I drop? It's his verse at the morgue- I'll BODY WHAT HE'S SENT! This corny chump's a flake, I'll "One Pump" his breaks and let the slug STOP THA APPEASEMENTS. 'Cause battlin' me? It's a no-no. It shoulda "Thrown Up More Red Flags" than a "Flu Epidemic in COMMUNIST CHINA!"


Now heres where it began to get really bad.. I had to read it three times in order to follow what you were doing here when you switched the multi in that spot. You ended the entire multi you had setup, without a closing concept about any of it at all.. And just.. Literally moved onto the next multi and concept? I loved the china flu epidemic line, but you literally just left us all hanging on that previous bar with 0 closer to finish out strongly with that last concept you were going on.


I'll walk all over this cunt like I'm "Knee Deep In Pussy," straight waffle-STOMPIN' VAGINAS!


Now I know that this comes right off the communist china line, and its a bit of a 1-2 punch technique you were going for, but the transition was horrible and cringe worthy, so even when I put it together what happened.. You started off with an amazing communist china flip.. And went right back to the basic style of concept connections you have been doing... Knee deep.. Pussy.. Waffle stomping vagins... All extremely simplistic concepts.


I'm writing nothing but promises, honest. I ain't MAKIN' NO DEATH THREATS! Dude better "Book-it Or Pay Attention" 'cause I ain't TAKIN' NO BETS YET! I swear this motherucker's insane for fuckin'' wit Brayne, this LAME SHOULDA JUS' STAYED HOME! Fuck you and fuck your Autographh, bitch! I'll get your stupid NAME PUT ON A GRAVESTONE!


Simplistic concept after simplistic concept, at one point you were just talking.. And then you came out with a proper closer, closing the entire verse out the way you should.. But even that was lackluster in concept wise itself. So, as far as the opener and closer, you are doing the technique correctly, opening thesis, closing statement.. But it is so simplistic that 90% of your punches and concepts literally have 0 affect towards your opponent. Your china concept was probably the best line in your entire verse and you used that as a setup.. Then failed to provide a dope closer to even that concept.



So, overall.. If I was going to say to work on anything FIRST.. itd be complexity. Thats definitely where you are the weakest in. After you learn how to craft a complex haymaker, then working on crafting them back to back and upgrading your wordplays to better fit the punchline in the setups so that every hit lands correctly and has strength behind them.

[Skizzo]

@Brayne Ded

Ok, ive now read the verse four times and I found a few areas that I wanted to pick apart for you. Ima do this one bar for bar and explain everything as we go.


I said look... Y'all better "Pray For Auto," I'm 'bout ta kill him; I "Swear To GOD" I BELIEVE IT!

These are the kinds of lines that I wanted to specifically pick apart. The reason that this line was lackluster and really missed the mark entirely, is because you are using extremely basic wordplay / setup connections leading into some really great ideas as punchline references.. But they miss the mark solely because the setup itself is so weak and unoriginal that it makes it almost cringe at how basic it was. Yall better pray for him.. And swear to god I believe it.. The wordplay setup wasnt even the most basic of homonyms and provided nothing to cleverly flip the oncoming punchline you were aiming for. As far as opening statement and thesis goes though, you hit the mark there showing us who and what you were talking about so that did well to set the tone. The problem is that is was just a weak concept in and of itself.



He be makin' the call to "Make A Wish" to "stop the sick teen/ sixteen" and COP HIM A TREATMENT!


The sixteen oronym was okay, but shaky in the fact that its pronounces Sicks-Teen, so that threw it off slightly as an oronym in pronounciation. That alone would be enough to weigh down the effectiveness of the punchline, but on top of that, you have an extremely long winded and unnecessary length of setup leading into the wordplay itself. So that adds to drag out the length between multis and also is killing your flow due to too much filler in the setups / wordplays. Also, on top of all that, yet another extremely basic flip as the punchline "treatment". All those things put together just make the entire line read extremely choppy in flow as well as weak within actual concepts.



Wait. Dude "Been In The Game" since '09? But still hasn't "GOT AN ACHIEVEMENT?" Punches'll "Put Him Out His Misery & Have His Head Bobbin'" 'til him and everyone readin' NODS IN AGREEMENT!


See thats what I mean, head bobbin, nods in agreement.. The simplicity in your concepts is what I honestly think is your worst enemy. You have a good handle of multis, and you have a really good structure in these bars, but that simplicity man.. Its horrendous. Your main objective in training to become better would be to work on complexity. And that, is mainly going to be focusing on making better flips from wordplay to punchline reference training.


Fuck an "L," dude jus' "Autographhed His Death Certificate" and CAUGHT A BEREAVEMENT! 'Cause "When I Snap?" Auto "Fumbles His Lines!" Nothing he's DROPPIN' BEEN DECENT!"


Nowwww we finally get to the football "snap" and fumble line.. Which is so hidden under the simplicity of the punchline reference yet again.. That most people wouldnt even notice it. Because instead of prividing an amazing ounchline referemce here.. You just end it with.. Nothing hes dropping has been decent... Way too much simplicity for such a great concept that had that much potential.


When I drop? It's his verse at the morgue- I'll BODY WHAT HE'S SENT! This corny chump's a flake, I'll "One Pump" his breaks and let the slug STOP THA APPEASEMENTS. 'Cause battlin' me? It's a no-no. It shoulda "Thrown Up More Red Flags" than a "Flu Epidemic in COMMUNIST CHINA!"


Now heres where it began to get really bad.. I had to read it three times in order to follow what you were doing here when you switched the multi in that spot. You ended the entire multi you had setup, without a closing concept about any of it at all.. And just.. Literally moved onto the next multi and concept? I loved the china flu epidemic line, but you literally just left us all hanging on that previous bar with 0 closer to finish out strongly with that last concept you were going on.


I'll walk all over this cunt like I'm "Knee Deep In Pussy," straight waffle-STOMPIN' VAGINAS!


Now I know that this comes right off the communist china line, and its a bit of a 1-2 punch technique you were going for, but the transition was horrible and cringe worthy, so even when I put it together what happened.. You started off with an amazing communist china flip.. And went right back to the basic style of concept connections you have been doing... Knee deep.. Pussy.. Waffle stomping vagins... All extremely simplistic concepts.


I'm writing nothing but promises, honest. I ain't MAKIN' NO DEATH THREATS! Dude better "Book-it Or Pay Attention" 'cause I ain't TAKIN' NO BETS YET! I swear this motherucker's insane for fuckin'' wit Brayne, this LAME SHOULDA JUS' STAYED HOME! Fuck you and fuck your Autographh, bitch! I'll get your stupid NAME PUT ON A GRAVESTONE!


Simplistic concept after simplistic concept, at one point you were just talking.. And then you came out with a proper closer, closing the entire verse out the way you should.. But even that was lackluster in concept wise itself. So, as far as the opener and closer, you are doing the technique correctly, opening thesis, closing statement.. But it is so simplistic that 90% of your punches and concepts literally have 0 affect towards your opponent. Your china concept was probably the best line in your entire verse and you used that as a setup.. Then failed to provide a dope closer to even that concept.



So, overall.. If I was going to say to work on anything FIRST.. itd be complexity. Thats definitely where you are the weakest in. After you learn how to craft a complex haymaker, then working on crafting them back to back and upgrading your wordplays to better fit the punchline in the setups so that every hit lands correctly and has strength behind them.

Thank you for the feedback, man. Kinda confirmed how I feel about my own bars. I tend to stray away from complexity. It's not the best plan on a rap battle site but I always end up writing simple, blunt bars. It's what I prefer, personally. However, I'm trying to be more competitive so I'll focus on not being so simple and upping the complexity. Most of what I write ends up coming off more like a bad joke than an actual punchline. It's actually why I named myself Brayne Ded. I lack complexity. This was some real insightful feedback, though, so I'll try to use it to help improve. Appreciate the time it took you to do a bar-by-bar breakdown.

Thank you for the feedback, man. Kinda confirmed how I feel about my own bars. I tend to stray away from complexity. It's not the best plan on a rap battle site but I always end up writing simple, blunt bars. It's what I prefer, personally. However, I'm trying to be more competitive so I'll focus on not being so simple and upping the complexity. Most of what I write ends up coming off more like a bad joke than an actual punchline. It's actually why I named myself Brayne Ded. I lack complexity. This was some real insightful feedback, though, so I'll try to use it to help improve. Appreciate the time it took you to do a bar-by-bar breakdown.

[Skizzo]

Course fammo. If you have a few minutes and wanna train.. I can show you some tricks to complexity that may help? @Brayne Ded

[Skizzo]

Course fammo. If you have a few minutes and wanna train.. I can show you some tricks to complexity that may help? @Brayne Ded

Originally Posted by Skizzo

Course fammo. If you have a few minutes and wanna train.. I can show you some tricks to complexity that may help? @Brayne Ded

I got nothing but time. Fire away.

Originally Posted by Skizzo

Course fammo. If you have a few minutes and wanna train.. I can show you some tricks to complexity that may help? @Brayne Ded

I got nothing but time. Fire away.

[Skizzo]

Alright cool.



So complexity... In short.. Just means how in depth the concept is, right. So Its mainly going to be, what creative flip do you provide from the wordplay.. To the punchline concept.. And how many layers you add to make that concept more complex.


As an example.. I could say, its hot like fire. Youd understand what I meant.. Fire is hot. Duh. Right? Now, I could also say, its as hot as the devils nutsack. That adds a new layer of complexity.. The thought process is a bit deeper.. Devil, lives in hell, and hell is hot.. Etc. The thought process to that is much more in depth than a simplistic hot like fire.



Bars work the same way in that regards.


The most important thing youre gonna try and focus on, is trying to cleverly flip the wordplays, into actual punchline references that make it creative.


So lets take this multi for example.

From one of my battles a few years back. I said..


The “TITANS IN FLESH DEMANDED A FEAST”, So They brought me “intacom the chatter”, its Like I had a “RIGHTEOUS INTENT & SCANS FROM POLICE”. See You got rap punchlines… but if I “TYSON THE LEFT THIS MAN IS DECEASED”.. Now all them “Gunbars”? “A Pier to be Dead In The Water”,There Aint nothing King TRITON HAS YET TO HANDLE, CAPICHE?? I’m just here to prove all that training.. & you was “Bread To Get Left Behind”, Sorta “LIKE AN ATTEMPT THAT HANSEL WOULD LEAVE”!!!// If this was a grudge match? We’d watch him “Buckle For That Belt”, But he aint “SIZIN TO FIT HIS PANTS & HIS JEANS”.. Nah, I said he’ll “Buckle From That Weak Bullshit” W/O Trynna “RIDE INTO TEXAS RANCHES WIT THESE”!!!(8)// They wouldn’t see Someone “Inherit The Business” this bad, If they were “FINDIN THIS KID A PAMPHLET OF DEEDS”, Cus I’ll pick up the pen, “Denmark A Tragedy”........ it’s Like Im “WRITIN A SCRIPT OF HAMLET TO READ”!!!!//



Notice.. In one of the main parts, Back at the Tyson punch, I didnt say just If I hit him with a left.. I said if I tyson the left, this man is deceased. Thats one of the main subtleties I used complexity.. But in the more noticable parts.. I used the formula, wordplay, like, punchline reference technique.


Basically what that means is.. I start with a wordplay..

They wouldn’t see Someone “Inherit The Business” this bad..

And then I jump straight into the like and punchline reference..

".. If they were FINDING THIS KID A PAMPHLET OF DEEDS."


So, basically, all im doing is finding a wordplay, to fit my punchline reference.. But then im twisting the wordplay with the punchline reference itself.


Kinna see what I mean?

[Skizzo]

Alright cool.



So complexity... In short.. Just means how in depth the concept is, right. So Its mainly going to be, what creative flip do you provide from the wordplay.. To the punchline concept.. And how many layers you add to make that concept more complex.


As an example.. I could say, its hot like fire. Youd understand what I meant.. Fire is hot. Duh. Right? Now, I could also say, its as hot as the devils nutsack. That adds a new layer of complexity.. The thought process is a bit deeper.. Devil, lives in hell, and hell is hot.. Etc. The thought process to that is much more in depth than a simplistic hot like fire.



Bars work the same way in that regards.


The most important thing youre gonna try and focus on, is trying to cleverly flip the wordplays, into actual punchline references that make it creative.


So lets take this multi for example.

From one of my battles a few years back. I said..


The “TITANS IN FLESH DEMANDED A FEAST”, So They brought me “intacom the chatter”, its Like I had a “RIGHTEOUS INTENT & SCANS FROM POLICE”. See You got rap punchlines… but if I “TYSON THE LEFT THIS MAN IS DECEASED”.. Now all them “Gunbars”? “A Pier to be Dead In The Water”,There Aint nothing King TRITON HAS YET TO HANDLE, CAPICHE?? I’m just here to prove all that training.. & you was “Bread To Get Left Behind”, Sorta “LIKE AN ATTEMPT THAT HANSEL WOULD LEAVE”!!!// If this was a grudge match? We’d watch him “Buckle For That Belt”, But he aint “SIZIN TO FIT HIS PANTS & HIS JEANS”.. Nah, I said he’ll “Buckle From That Weak Bullshit” W/O Trynna “RIDE INTO TEXAS RANCHES WIT THESE”!!!(8)// They wouldn’t see Someone “Inherit The Business” this bad, If they were “FINDIN THIS KID A PAMPHLET OF DEEDS”, Cus I’ll pick up the pen, “Denmark A Tragedy”........ it’s Like Im “WRITIN A SCRIPT OF HAMLET TO READ”!!!!//



Notice.. In one of the main parts, Back at the Tyson punch, I didnt say just If I hit him with a left.. I said if I tyson the left, this man is deceased. Thats one of the main subtleties I used complexity.. But in the more noticable parts.. I used the formula, wordplay, like, punchline reference technique.


Basically what that means is.. I start with a wordplay..

They wouldn’t see Someone “Inherit The Business” this bad..

And then I jump straight into the like and punchline reference..

".. If they were FINDING THIS KID A PAMPHLET OF DEEDS."


So, basically, all im doing is finding a wordplay, to fit my punchline reference.. But then im twisting the wordplay with the punchline reference itself.


Kinna see what I mean?

I see what you're doing there. Those were some good examples, man. Complex but still easy to follow. I do actually understand how I need to write and can see the complexity in other's writing. I just have a hard time writing a complex bar I like and that I think is good. I've been hiding in the safety of my simple ass bars for far too long. Again, I appreciate the time you took to provide the examples. Good lookin' out, bro.

I see what you're doing there. Those were some good examples, man. Complex but still easy to follow. I do actually understand how I need to write and can see the complexity in other's writing. I just have a hard time writing a complex bar I like and that I think is good. I've been hiding in the safety of my simple ass bars for far too long. Again, I appreciate the time you took to provide the examples. Good lookin' out, bro.

[Skizzo]

Of course bro. If you ever write anything and wanna work on complexity, feel free to drop some concepts here and ill show you the thought process behind making them a bit more complex. Hope it helped homie

[Skizzo]

Of course bro. If you ever write anything and wanna work on complexity, feel free to drop some concepts here and ill show you the thought process behind making them a bit more complex. Hope it helped homie

Originally Posted by Skizzo

Of course bro. If you ever write anything and wanna work on complexity, feel free to drop some concepts here and ill show you the thought process behind making them a bit more complex. Hope it helped homie

We'll see. I'm supposed to battle Rai sometime soon. I'll try for some complexity.

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Sometimes, the simplicity works for me, though. Figured you might get a kick out of this:

https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_deta...n=tb&id=502713

Originally Posted by Skizzo

Of course bro. If you ever write anything and wanna work on complexity, feel free to drop some concepts here and ill show you the thought process behind making them a bit more complex. Hope it helped homie

We'll see. I'm supposed to battle Rai sometime soon. I'll try for some complexity.

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Sometimes, the simplicity works for me, though. Figured you might get a kick out of this:

https://www.letsbeef.com/battle_deta...n=tb&id=502713

[Skizzo]

Dopee! I wish you luck. I wont break down any open battle stuff publicly because that causes bias sometimes if I start pointing out stuff, but definitely shoot me the link and ill shoot you some feedback in inbox or lb chat when it drops. Looking forward to seeing your progress fam.

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

@Brayne Ded me and Tana squashed our beef and drama after I dropped the potion. Thats the homie now, but..


Cause you keep callin' everyone out and losing; you're real "battle hardened" but can't BEAT ROOKIES like VETERANS DO. Shit, I'd kill you in a video battle .. and post it to Pornhub so everyone knows I EAT PUSSIES much BETTER THAN YOU!

Dude, the complexity in that bar, along with the personal and humor twist to the concept was so fucking raw. I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Lmao. That was an extremely great verse. Muchhh better complexity and punchlines than the verse you posted up there. Very nicely done bro.

[Skizzo]

Dopee! I wish you luck. I wont break down any open battle stuff publicly because that causes bias sometimes if I start pointing out stuff, but definitely shoot me the link and ill shoot you some feedback in inbox or lb chat when it drops. Looking forward to seeing your progress fam.

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

@Brayne Ded me and Tana squashed our beef and drama after I dropped the potion. Thats the homie now, but..


Cause you keep callin' everyone out and losing; you're real "battle hardened" but can't BEAT ROOKIES like VETERANS DO. Shit, I'd kill you in a video battle .. and post it to Pornhub so everyone knows I EAT PUSSIES much BETTER THAN YOU!

Dude, the complexity in that bar, along with the personal and humor twist to the concept was so fucking raw. I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Lmao. That was an extremely great verse. Muchhh better complexity and punchlines than the verse you posted up there. Very nicely done bro.

Thanks, man. I'll work on what you pointed out. Anyways, I'm gonna hop off LB for the night. Thanks for the tips, brotato chip.

Thanks, man. I'll work on what you pointed out. Anyways, I'm gonna hop off LB for the night. Thanks for the tips, brotato chip.