The Greatest Of: Champions (Kiwi's version)

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------



Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------



Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

It’s all about preferences so no ones wrong here tbh. Good to see your view on it.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

It’s all about preferences so no ones wrong here tbh. Good to see your view on it.

blu deleted, so he lost all his accolades. row deleted and cheated, so he lsot all his accolades. just confirming that if you delete you are no longer entitled to previous accolades earned.

awesome list. i disagree with all of it, but i love this project, and loved seeing this.

great work LT

blu deleted, so he lost all his accolades. row deleted and cheated, so he lsot all his accolades. just confirming that if you delete you are no longer entitled to previous accolades earned.

awesome list. i disagree with all of it, but i love this project, and loved seeing this.

great work LT

Originally Posted by g u t s

blu deleted, so he lost all his accolades. row deleted and cheated, so he lsot all his accolades. just confirming that if you delete you are no longer entitled to previous accolades earned.

awesome list. i disagree with all of it, but i love this project, and loved seeing this.

great work LT

Yet they’re still respected for all the work they’ve put in. So your opinion here don’t count.

Originally Posted by g u t s

blu deleted, so he lost all his accolades. row deleted and cheated, so he lsot all his accolades. just confirming that if you delete you are no longer entitled to previous accolades earned.

awesome list. i disagree with all of it, but i love this project, and loved seeing this.

great work LT

Yet they’re still respected for all the work they’ve put in. So your opinion here don’t count.

Originally Posted by P u n k

Yet they’re still respected for all the work they’ve put in. So your opinion here don’t count.

i was letting lt know that the site does not consider the accolades of deleted accounts

Originally Posted by P u n k

Yet they’re still respected for all the work they’ve put in. So your opinion here don’t count.

i was letting lt know that the site does not consider the accolades of deleted accounts

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by Svengali

These threads are always fun but of course that's all they will ever be because ranking people from different generations is difficult to do especially when the associated achievements change.

Here's an interesting thing that doesn't get accounted for in the formula though. When I was looking through the Hall of Fame UNKNOWN ARTIST's record struck me as the most impressive 282 wins, 5 losses. Not only that but he avenged four of those losses. Tournaments aren't the only measure of someone's achievement after all.

I toyed with the idea of factoring battle record into it, but decided against it for two reasons. Firstly, too many of the people in question have at least one major account deletion, so it isn’t possible to get their battle records accurately (Bleu, Lockhart, PaiNN, Row, Rant, Rai, Ticket). Secondly, because then Bnas would be GOAT

Finding a way to factor defeating other people on the list into the equation would be good though, although I have no idea how it would be done. But thanks for the suggestion!

---------- Post added at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Another thing is the number of tournaments has increased over the years. So I would weigh tournament wins against the total number of tournaments available in that arena through the calendar year when it was won. Someone winning two tournaments when there were only 4 tournaments available is more impressive than someone winning two tournaments when there are 8 available.

There was consideration given to weighting tournament wins based on the number of accolades among the field that partook in the tourney? This would probably disadvantage those in the really early days when only a handful of accounts from that era got tourney wins but I guess it's the best idea I've seen for it so far.

As far as the LBT/LBA(/LBTT) belts being around only in the recent era, I think this is somewhat countered by the existence of the Letsbeef.com competitions, which mostly seemed to run in the older days and stopped several years ago. For instance, Punk only won one of them, despite being a Track HOFer, and this has substantially held back his score on the "Greatest Track Makers of All Time" sublist (speaking of which, I have sublists for Audio Battling, Text Battling & Cyphering, Video Battling and Track & Music Video Making which I may post if the interest warrants them). I'm sure there are way more LB.com competitions than are displayed in the forum page, but I have no idea where to find them, maybe uncovering these would even the playing field some more?

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by Svengali

These threads are always fun but of course that's all they will ever be because ranking people from different generations is difficult to do especially when the associated achievements change.

Here's an interesting thing that doesn't get accounted for in the formula though. When I was looking through the Hall of Fame UNKNOWN ARTIST's record struck me as the most impressive 282 wins, 5 losses. Not only that but he avenged four of those losses. Tournaments aren't the only measure of someone's achievement after all.

I toyed with the idea of factoring battle record into it, but decided against it for two reasons. Firstly, too many of the people in question have at least one major account deletion, so it isn’t possible to get their battle records accurately (Bleu, Lockhart, PaiNN, Row, Rant, Rai, Ticket). Secondly, because then Bnas would be GOAT

Finding a way to factor defeating other people on the list into the equation would be good though, although I have no idea how it would be done. But thanks for the suggestion!

---------- Post added at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Another thing is the number of tournaments has increased over the years. So I would weigh tournament wins against the total number of tournaments available in that arena through the calendar year when it was won. Someone winning two tournaments when there were only 4 tournaments available is more impressive than someone winning two tournaments when there are 8 available.

There was consideration given to weighting tournament wins based on the number of accolades among the field that partook in the tourney? This would probably disadvantage those in the really early days when only a handful of accounts from that era got tourney wins but I guess it's the best idea I've seen for it so far.

As far as the LBT/LBA(/LBTT) belts being around only in the recent era, I think this is somewhat countered by the existence of the Letsbeef.com competitions, which mostly seemed to run in the older days and stopped several years ago. For instance, Punk only won one of them, despite being a Track HOFer, and this has substantially held back his score on the "Greatest Track Makers of All Time" sublist (speaking of which, I have sublists for Audio Battling, Text Battling & Cyphering, Video Battling and Track & Music Video Making which I may post if the interest warrants them). I'm sure there are way more LB.com competitions than are displayed in the forum page, but I have no idea where to find them, maybe uncovering these would even the playing field some more?

[NOBLE]

When did LB.com competitions start?

[NOBLE]

When did LB.com competitions start?

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Also, huge props for taking the time to do this Lil Talent. What I'd also like to see is the "raw data" of who won what and when. The records haven't necessarily been cleanly kept as far as I know, and it looks like you've already done the footwork to collect the pieces.

A lot of the information had been collated by @RULE, absolutely massive props to him for taking all that time, it made my job not just easier but possible. Most of the records haven't been updated since roughly the time I joined the site, which is just as well, because I did the results of everything from when the records end until now by memory. Below are all the sources I remember using:

Audio Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Audio Champions
Text Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Text Champions
Video Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Video Champions and Lets Beef (And LOCKHART) Proudly Present: The Bars For Bling Video Battle Tournament
LBA: The History Of: The LBA Championship
LBT: The History Of: The LBT Championship
LBTT: The History Of: The LBTT Championship
LB.com Contests Forum Section: LetsBeef.com Contests > WINNERS
Audio HOF Inductees: Resolved Audio Nominations
Text HOF Inductees: Resolved [Text] Nominations
Track HOF Inductees: Resolved Track Nominations
LB Awards: The History Of: The LetsBeef Awards

The table with all the information that I used to make this is in a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet, I can send it to you anyone that is really curious to tinker with if they want to.

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Also, huge props for taking the time to do this Lil Talent. What I'd also like to see is the "raw data" of who won what and when. The records haven't necessarily been cleanly kept as far as I know, and it looks like you've already done the footwork to collect the pieces.

A lot of the information had been collated by @RULE, absolutely massive props to him for taking all that time, it made my job not just easier but possible. Most of the records haven't been updated since roughly the time I joined the site, which is just as well, because I did the results of everything from when the records end until now by memory. Below are all the sources I remember using:

Audio Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Audio Champions
Text Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Text Champions
Video Tournaments: The History Of: LetsBeef Video Champions and Lets Beef (And LOCKHART) Proudly Present: The Bars For Bling Video Battle Tournament
LBA: The History Of: The LBA Championship
LBT: The History Of: The LBT Championship
LBTT: The History Of: The LBTT Championship
LB.com Contests Forum Section: LetsBeef.com Contests > WINNERS
Audio HOF Inductees: Resolved Audio Nominations
Text HOF Inductees: Resolved [Text] Nominations
Track HOF Inductees: Resolved Track Nominations
LB Awards: The History Of: The LetsBeef Awards

The table with all the information that I used to make this is in a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet, I can send it to you anyone that is really curious to tinker with if they want to.

Originally Posted by g u t s

i was letting lt know that the site does not consider the accolades of deleted accounts

The site being three users? Let the show roll on LT.

NOTE: @RULE already put this kind of system together years ago. Official thread is here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128666

Originally Posted by g u t s

i was letting lt know that the site does not consider the accolades of deleted accounts

The site being three users? Let the show roll on LT.

NOTE: @RULE already put this kind of system together years ago. Official thread is here: https://www.letsbeef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128666

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

When did LB.com competitions start?

My mistake, the earliest records I can find date from 2011. I do think it's an issue that battlers from the 2006-2009 period are very difficult to accurately rank, although a lot of them are HOF despite not having any titles so I guess that somewhat evens things out, for instance WAR TANK/Warren Peece is =61st. I guess a rankings list based purely on talent and ability not results is the only way to give the 2000's battlers a shot at being top unfortunately.

[Kiwi Peewee]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

When did LB.com competitions start?

My mistake, the earliest records I can find date from 2011. I do think it's an issue that battlers from the 2006-2009 period are very difficult to accurately rank, although a lot of them are HOF despite not having any titles so I guess that somewhat evens things out, for instance WAR TANK/Warren Peece is =61st. I guess a rankings list based purely on talent and ability not results is the only way to give the 2000's battlers a shot at being top unfortunately.