Voting Power...

[NOBLE]

I think the current system we have is wonderful, but there are a couple of problem areas I think we have the ability to solve and make the system even more ideal.

• If you look at our admin logs, the net movement of voting power changes from our collective actions is that we lower voting power a lot more than we raise it.
• Once someone's voting power has been lowered, we don't have an outlined path/recourse for them to have their voting power eventually restored.
• When we lower voting power, it happens anonymously and most people don't know when and why they lost their voting power.
• People carry lowered voting power for extended periods of time. Someone may have had their vp lowered over 6 months even years ago, but has since then become a much more conscious voter. So their votes counting as 0 in current battles means that battles aren't registering the accurate merits of votes cast today.
• There are often incredible battle results where someone may have 5 votes to one, but the person with 1 vote wins because their voter was the only one with voting power. Some get a mod to "fix" it, but a lot don't because they don't want to appear as bitching.

Does anyone else see this as a problem? If so, how can we go about solving this?
@DaMostH8ed @Danger Rich @Murderous Swag @Phil Banks @SWAVY @Krhyme Killz @RULE @AfterThought @Jason @RhetoriK @Teek @UNKNOWN ARTIST @2FUEL @Mindless @Miqueas @Pugz

[NOBLE]

I think the current system we have is wonderful, but there are a couple of problem areas I think we have the ability to solve and make the system even more ideal.

• If you look at our admin logs, the net movement of voting power changes from our collective actions is that we lower voting power a lot more than we raise it.
• Once someone's voting power has been lowered, we don't have an outlined path/recourse for them to have their voting power eventually restored.
• When we lower voting power, it happens anonymously and most people don't know when and why they lost their voting power.
• People carry lowered voting power for extended periods of time. Someone may have had their vp lowered over 6 months even years ago, but has since then become a much more conscious voter. So their votes counting as 0 in current battles means that battles aren't registering the accurate merits of votes cast today.
• There are often incredible battle results where someone may have 5 votes to one, but the person with 1 vote wins because their voter was the only one with voting power. Some get a mod to "fix" it, but a lot don't because they don't want to appear as bitching.

Does anyone else see this as a problem? If so, how can we go about solving this?
@DaMostH8ed @Danger Rich @Murderous Swag @Phil Banks @SWAVY @Krhyme Killz @RULE @AfterThought @Jason @RhetoriK @Teek @UNKNOWN ARTIST @2FUEL @Mindless @Miqueas @Pugz

[AfterThought]

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

[AfterThought]

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

Originally Posted by AfterThought

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

This is true

Originally Posted by AfterThought

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

This is true

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by AfterThought

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

That is an excellent idea @AfterThought! However, I think that might require some coding expertise which we might not have access to? I don't think the fact that we don't have a coder should prevent us from tackling certain issues in other ways. If we couldn't code an automatic timer of vp lowering as you have suggested, how else do you think we can go about trying to fix this?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by AfterThought

I think if we can somehow have the ability to lower VP for a specific period of time (similar to infractions), that would be great. Then maybe the mod who lowered the VP would get a notification to re-adjust the user's VP after his penalty is done, keepin it a 0 or raising it would be the mod's decision.

That is an excellent idea @AfterThought! However, I think that might require some coding expertise which we might not have access to? I don't think the fact that we don't have a coder should prevent us from tackling certain issues in other ways. If we couldn't code an automatic timer of vp lowering as you have suggested, how else do you think we can go about trying to fix this?

[Óðinn]

Don't lower VP....just go to there house an punch the shit outta them....Walk away sayin' "You Know What Thats For......Compliments of LB".

haha nah, uhm...i don't know to be honest...what also need's to be fixed is the voting system on tourney's that @UNKNOWN ARTIST has said repeatedly as well as what you have brought to the table @NOBLE. TBH i think @X can do these things anyway?? I know he can change the outcome of the votes on the tournaments & that should be one of the first things addressed.

As for VP lowering...maybe if we have an Extra forum in the staff lounge (for now) with each Mod having there OWN thread (this will make finding which VP you lowered easier for us all) and when ever you lower someone's VP you go to your VP Lowering Thread an place the Member in questions name & along with the battle you lowered the VP on in there too followed by a time length. This way we can keep track of the VP being lowered & when they are to be hired again.

[Óðinn]

Don't lower VP....just go to there house an punch the shit outta them....Walk away sayin' "You Know What Thats For......Compliments of LB".

haha nah, uhm...i don't know to be honest...what also need's to be fixed is the voting system on tourney's that @UNKNOWN ARTIST has said repeatedly as well as what you have brought to the table @NOBLE. TBH i think @X can do these things anyway?? I know he can change the outcome of the votes on the tournaments & that should be one of the first things addressed.

As for VP lowering...maybe if we have an Extra forum in the staff lounge (for now) with each Mod having there OWN thread (this will make finding which VP you lowered easier for us all) and when ever you lower someone's VP you go to your VP Lowering Thread an place the Member in questions name & along with the battle you lowered the VP on in there too followed by a time length. This way we can keep track of the VP being lowered & when they are to be hired again.

[UNKNOWN ARTIST]

Bad votes deserve low vp ... There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months

If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple


Why over complicate things

I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system

[UNKNOWN ARTIST]

Bad votes deserve low vp ... There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months

If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple


Why over complicate things

I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system

[NOBLE]

That's a pretty good idea @2FUEL. I'm sure X or any really good coder could solve a lot of our problems. It's been really hard to get any coding changes done around here though, and right now, I'm on the mindset of fixing stuff anyways with our limited resources. Like how we found an alternative around not having mod access in the LB chatroom, which required coding apparently in order to change what was embedded, I feel like a lot of these problems can actually be solved if we put our minds together and come up with a policy that is sound.
I like where you are going with creating our own logs of vp lowering in a separate forum. However, I feel like we would need to ensure that everyone is actually logging the vp changes they make. Perhaps we would need the Head Mods to look after that? And also, what about notifying users when their vp has been lowered? It's one thing if we log when we lower their vp and how long it is to be lowered for. But I still feel people should know when their vp has been lowered (maybe not everyone). How would we go about resolving that?

[NOBLE]

That's a pretty good idea @2FUEL. I'm sure X or any really good coder could solve a lot of our problems. It's been really hard to get any coding changes done around here though, and right now, I'm on the mindset of fixing stuff anyways with our limited resources. Like how we found an alternative around not having mod access in the LB chatroom, which required coding apparently in order to change what was embedded, I feel like a lot of these problems can actually be solved if we put our minds together and come up with a policy that is sound.
I like where you are going with creating our own logs of vp lowering in a separate forum. However, I feel like we would need to ensure that everyone is actually logging the vp changes they make. Perhaps we would need the Head Mods to look after that? And also, what about notifying users when their vp has been lowered? It's one thing if we log when we lower their vp and how long it is to be lowered for. But I still feel people should know when their vp has been lowered (maybe not everyone). How would we go about resolving that?

[Krhyme Killz]

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN ARTIST

Bad votes deserve low vp ... There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months

If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple


Why over complicate things

I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system

yupppppppppppp

[Krhyme Killz]

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN ARTIST

Bad votes deserve low vp ... There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months

If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple


Why over complicate things

I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system

yupppppppppppp

[NOBLE]

@UNKNOWN ARTIST
Bad votes deserve low vp ...
I think everyone would agree with you here.

There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months. If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple
People's vp being lowered indefinitely is not a good thing. Its not a good thing for a lot of the same reasons infraction bans aren't given indefinitely. A lot of the time when mods lower vp, its based on ONE instance of poor voting. People sometimes improve in voting and their prospect of doing so would likely increase if they actually KNEW their vp was lowered in the first place and why. Bad voting stands out a lot more than good voting does. Because when someone gives a well-explained vote, we feel like that should be the norm. So we end up lowering vp a lot more than we raise it. That's evident in the admin logs.

Why over complicate things
I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues
You think having probably 50% of the site's voters at 0vp is a mild issue? Even if it was a mild issue, you think that means we shouldn't take any measures towards solving it?

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system
I agree with you that tournament vp and weighted staff vp is another big issue. But the fact is, these two issues aren't contingent. We could resolve issues relating to vp on regular battles without tackling tournamet vp issues and vice versa. I personally don't see why we can't come up with non-coding solutions to both simultaneously. But I don't think the fact that another non-contingent problem exists means we shouldn't do anything about a problem we can very much solve.

[NOBLE]

@UNKNOWN ARTIST
Bad votes deserve low vp ...
I think everyone would agree with you here.

There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months. If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple
People's vp being lowered indefinitely is not a good thing. Its not a good thing for a lot of the same reasons infraction bans aren't given indefinitely. A lot of the time when mods lower vp, its based on ONE instance of poor voting. People sometimes improve in voting and their prospect of doing so would likely increase if they actually KNEW their vp was lowered in the first place and why. Bad voting stands out a lot more than good voting does. Because when someone gives a well-explained vote, we feel like that should be the norm. So we end up lowering vp a lot more than we raise it. That's evident in the admin logs.

Why over complicate things
I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues
You think having probably 50% of the site's voters at 0vp is a mild issue? Even if it was a mild issue, you think that means we shouldn't take any measures towards solving it?

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system
I agree with you that tournament vp and weighted staff vp is another big issue. But the fact is, these two issues aren't contingent. We could resolve issues relating to vp on regular battles without tackling tournamet vp issues and vice versa. I personally don't see why we can't come up with non-coding solutions to both simultaneously. But I don't think the fact that another non-contingent problem exists means we shouldn't do anything about a problem we can very much solve.

[Krhyme Killz]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

@UNKNOWN ARTIST
Bad votes deserve low vp ...
I think everyone would agree with you here.

There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months. If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple
People's vp being lowered indefinitely is not a good thing. Its not a good thing for a lot of the same reasons infraction bans aren't given indefinitely. A lot of the time when mods lower vp, its based on ONE instance of poor voting. People sometimes improve in voting and their prospect of doing so would likely increase if they actually KNEW their vp was lowered in the first place and why. Bad voting stands out a lot more than good voting does. Because when someone gives a well-explained vote, we feel like that should be the norm. So we end up lowering vp a lot more than we raise it. That's evident in the admin logs.

Why over complicate things
I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues
You think having probably 50% of the site's voters at 0vp is a mild issue? Even if it was a mild issue, you think that means we shouldn't take any measures towards solving it?

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system
I agree with you that tournament vp and weighted staff vp is another big issue. But the fact is, these two issues aren't contingent. We could resolve issues relating to vp on regular battles without tackling tournamet vp issues and vice versa. I personally don't see why we can't come up with non-coding solutions to both simultaneously. But I don't think the fact that another non-contingent problem exists means we shouldn't do anything about a problem we can very much solve.

but NOBLE...the point is, this is only an issue because we are more vigilant in lowering VP but never upping it...i'm guilty of it too..i probably lower vs. up VP in a 25:1 ratio. doing anything automatically...at least to me...only further complicates and worsens the issue. for every one person that needs their VP upped, there are 15 people who need it to stay low. so if it was automatic, we'd be lowering it 15 times, then turning around and lowering it AGAIN 14 times for the same folks

[Krhyme Killz]

Originally Posted by NOBLE

@UNKNOWN ARTIST
Bad votes deserve low vp ...
I think everyone would agree with you here.

There loads of people out there who don't deserve their vp being automatically raised every few months. If you see somebody dropping good unbaised explained votes and their vp is low... Raise it... Simple
People's vp being lowered indefinitely is not a good thing. Its not a good thing for a lot of the same reasons infraction bans aren't given indefinitely. A lot of the time when mods lower vp, its based on ONE instance of poor voting. People sometimes improve in voting and their prospect of doing so would likely increase if they actually KNEW their vp was lowered in the first place and why. Bad voting stands out a lot more than good voting does. Because when someone gives a well-explained vote, we feel like that should be the norm. So we end up lowering vp a lot more than we raise it. That's evident in the admin logs.

Why over complicate things
I don't think we need to be sitting working out unnecessary solutions to mild issues
You think having probably 50% of the site's voters at 0vp is a mild issue? Even if it was a mild issue, you think that means we shouldn't take any measures towards solving it?

The focus should be more on bigger issues getting sorted out first like tournament vp and weighted staff vote system
I agree with you that tournament vp and weighted staff vp is another big issue. But the fact is, these two issues aren't contingent. We could resolve issues relating to vp on regular battles without tackling tournamet vp issues and vice versa. I personally don't see why we can't come up with non-coding solutions to both simultaneously. But I don't think the fact that another non-contingent problem exists means we shouldn't do anything about a problem we can very much solve.

but NOBLE...the point is, this is only an issue because we are more vigilant in lowering VP but never upping it...i'm guilty of it too..i probably lower vs. up VP in a 25:1 ratio. doing anything automatically...at least to me...only further complicates and worsens the issue. for every one person that needs their VP upped, there are 15 people who need it to stay low. so if it was automatic, we'd be lowering it 15 times, then turning around and lowering it AGAIN 14 times for the same folks