The Greatest Of: Champions (Kiwi's version)

[Kiwi Peewee]

The Greatest Of: Champions (Kiwi's Edition)

This article is basically the same as RULE's The Greatest Of: Champions, except it's more comprehensive. The point is to provide a quantifiable way of ranking successful battlers across all formats on the site. The top 60 are included here.

The Scoring System:

Each battler is ranked on the number of points they have earned over their career across any number of accounts on LetsBeef. Points are awarded for the following achievements, every time someone accomplishes that achievement (so for instance the 2x HOFers get 20 points overall from that category):

Audio/Text/Track Hall Of Fame Inductee – 10 points
Audio/Text/Video Grand Champion – 5 points
Audio/Text/Video GC Finalist – 5 points
Audio/Text/Video Secondary Champion – 3 points
Audio/Text/Video Secondary Finalist – 3 points
Tag Team or Rookie Champion – 2 points
Tag Team or Rookie Finalist – 2 points
LBA/LBT/LBTT/THC Title Match Victory* – 1 point
LBA/LBT/LBTT/THC Title Match Appearance** – 1 point
Cypher Competition Winner – 2 points
Cypher Competition Placing – 1 point
Major Track Competition 1st place – 5 points
Major Track Competition 2nd place – 3 points
Major Track Competition 3rd place – 2 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 1st place – 3 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 2nd place – 2 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 3rd place – 1 point
Battle/Cypher/Track-related LB Award – 1 point

* Victories via no-show are not counted

** Unsuccessful challenges that are part of an unrelated tournament are not counted

So, with that out of the way, let's get onto the rankings!

The Rankings:

1. Lockhart – 168

2. Bleu – 141

3. RULE – 86

4. UNKNOWN ARTIST – 75

5. Seul – 68

6. Dono – 62

7. Erupt – 60

8. Phil Banks – 54

9. stricc – 51

10. M-Rock – 49

11. Rai – 48

12. ILLoKWENT – 47

13. Jason – 44

14. Punk – 43

15. Askari – 39

16. Celsius – 38

17. Row – 37

18. Ticket – 36

19. Esso – 31

20. THA DUKE AND ALL-BORO – 30

=22. Manhattan, GRizzEAT AND reEFer – 28

=25. Real Talk AND Edgeworth – 27

27. SIXX-SHOTT – 26

=26. Rant, Shodan AND Skitt_Blazin – 24

=29. Mayneak AND Dissizit – 23

31. YC – 22

=32. DaDDiO, Kiwi Peewee AND Wonder Gurl – 21

=35. Brutally Honest, Illimit, LEFT FIELD AND Meta4 – 20

39. Aggo – 19

40. Obey – 17

=41. Danger Rich, FiNAL WoRD, Mikey DeNiro, Stotty Pimpin AND 2FUEL – 16

=46. DJ WENJAY, LunaticK, SBT The Messiah, Krhyme Killz, TalkSick, Wonderbred – 15

=52. BizzyOne, Fiji Osa, RhetoriK, Strat AND TRE – 13

=57. Ferno, Fidel Z AND GOOD GRIEF – 12

=60. DeNiro B Milk AND OLDE ENGLISH – 11

[Kiwi Peewee]

The Greatest Of: Champions (Kiwi's Edition)

This article is basically the same as RULE's The Greatest Of: Champions, except it's more comprehensive. The point is to provide a quantifiable way of ranking successful battlers across all formats on the site. The top 60 are included here.

The Scoring System:

Each battler is ranked on the number of points they have earned over their career across any number of accounts on LetsBeef. Points are awarded for the following achievements, every time someone accomplishes that achievement (so for instance the 2x HOFers get 20 points overall from that category):

Audio/Text/Track Hall Of Fame Inductee – 10 points
Audio/Text/Video Grand Champion – 5 points
Audio/Text/Video GC Finalist – 5 points
Audio/Text/Video Secondary Champion – 3 points
Audio/Text/Video Secondary Finalist – 3 points
Tag Team or Rookie Champion – 2 points
Tag Team or Rookie Finalist – 2 points
LBA/LBT/LBTT/THC Title Match Victory* – 1 point
LBA/LBT/LBTT/THC Title Match Appearance** – 1 point
Cypher Competition Winner – 2 points
Cypher Competition Placing – 1 point
Major Track Competition 1st place – 5 points
Major Track Competition 2nd place – 3 points
Major Track Competition 3rd place – 2 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 1st place – 3 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 2nd place – 2 points
Minor Track/Music Video Competition 3rd place – 1 point
Battle/Cypher/Track-related LB Award – 1 point

* Victories via no-show are not counted

** Unsuccessful challenges that are part of an unrelated tournament are not counted

So, with that out of the way, let's get onto the rankings!

The Rankings:

1. Lockhart – 168

2. Bleu – 141

3. RULE – 86

4. UNKNOWN ARTIST – 75

5. Seul – 68

6. Dono – 62

7. Erupt – 60

8. Phil Banks – 54

9. stricc – 51

10. M-Rock – 49

11. Rai – 48

12. ILLoKWENT – 47

13. Jason – 44

14. Punk – 43

15. Askari – 39

16. Celsius – 38

17. Row – 37

18. Ticket – 36

19. Esso – 31

20. THA DUKE AND ALL-BORO – 30

=22. Manhattan, GRizzEAT AND reEFer – 28

=25. Real Talk AND Edgeworth – 27

27. SIXX-SHOTT – 26

=26. Rant, Shodan AND Skitt_Blazin – 24

=29. Mayneak AND Dissizit – 23

31. YC – 22

=32. DaDDiO, Kiwi Peewee AND Wonder Gurl – 21

=35. Brutally Honest, Illimit, LEFT FIELD AND Meta4 – 20

39. Aggo – 19

40. Obey – 17

=41. Danger Rich, FiNAL WoRD, Mikey DeNiro, Stotty Pimpin AND 2FUEL – 16

=46. DJ WENJAY, LunaticK, SBT The Messiah, Krhyme Killz, TalkSick, Wonderbred – 15

=52. BizzyOne, Fiji Osa, RhetoriK, Strat AND TRE – 13

=57. Ferno, Fidel Z AND GOOD GRIEF – 12

=60. DeNiro B Milk AND OLDE ENGLISH – 11

[Edgeworth]

Interesting system, appreciate taking the time!

[Edgeworth]

Interesting system, appreciate taking the time!

[ALL-BORO]

Appreciate the recognition and i am humbled to even be considered for the list. Great job sir RESPECT.

[ALL-BORO]

Appreciate the recognition and i am humbled to even be considered for the list. Great job sir RESPECT.

[NOBLE]

I wouldn't include LBA/LBT wins because that automatically gives the newer guys a leg up over the older guys who were around when LBT/LBA didn't exist yet.

[NOBLE]

I wouldn't include LBA/LBT wins because that automatically gives the newer guys a leg up over the older guys who were around when LBT/LBA didn't exist yet.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I wouldn't include LBA/LBT wins because that automatically gives the newer guys a leg up over the older guys who were around when LBT/LBA didn't exist yet.

I would because it’s supposed to hold some sort of prestige. Seeing that there’s only 2 major site titles on the site, they should be considered very important. It’s about growth as a platform. And no ones stopping the older guys from coming back and winning a major title. Skitt and Boro for example are 2 old heads battling for LBA.

Dope list Talent.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

I wouldn't include LBA/LBT wins because that automatically gives the newer guys a leg up over the older guys who were around when LBT/LBA didn't exist yet.

I would because it’s supposed to hold some sort of prestige. Seeing that there’s only 2 major site titles on the site, they should be considered very important. It’s about growth as a platform. And no ones stopping the older guys from coming back and winning a major title. Skitt and Boro for example are 2 old heads battling for LBA.

Dope list Talent.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

I would because it’s supposed to hold some sort of prestige. Seeing that there’s only 2 major site titles on the site, they should be considered very important. It’s about growth as a platform. And no ones stopping the older guys from coming back and winning a major title. Skitt and Boro for example are 2 old heads battling for LBA.

Dope list Talent.

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

I would because it’s supposed to hold some sort of prestige. Seeing that there’s only 2 major site titles on the site, they should be considered very important. It’s about growth as a platform. And no ones stopping the older guys from coming back and winning a major title. Skitt and Boro for example are 2 old heads battling for LBA.

Dope list Talent.

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Shodan

Aren't you supposed to be permabanned?

Also, huge props for taking the time to do this @Lil Talent. What I'd also like to see is the "raw data" of who won what and when. The records haven't necessarily been cleanly kept as far as I know, and it looks like you've already done the footwork to collect the pieces.

Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Shodan

Aren't you supposed to be permabanned?

Also, huge props for taking the time to do this @Lil Talent. What I'd also like to see is the "raw data" of who won what and when. The records haven't necessarily been cleanly kept as far as I know, and it looks like you've already done the footwork to collect the pieces.

Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------



Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by P u n k

So what do we do? Any new ideas or features, we just cancel out because it wasn’t there in the beginning? There’s no telling how Jerry West would’ve done, yeah exactly yet the NBA is now ranking All-Stars based on if a team captain picks them.

Regardless, the site’s improved its features and competitions. That’s like saying ILLOKWENT didn’t become one of the greats because he’s only LBT King.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------



Do I look permabanned? What a stupid uncalled for question. Obviously I didn’t unban myself, pedo.

ILLoKWENT did more than win LBT. Lol. He won the Concept and another orange tourney, I believe. Anyways, I am not in any way shape or form saying any new ideas or features to be cancelled. I'm simply arguing for a more nuanced way of comparing guys from different eras. If you love this list and are satisfied with the results, then that's good. More power to you and props to Lil Talent for taking the time to share his perspective.

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

Comparing battle rappers to NBA Legends isn't an accurate analogy. People obviously can't compete at a high level in the NBA for more than 10-15 years, so yeah it's fair to say you can't compare between different eras because the game changes (which is why the MJ/LeBron debate will never hold any weight because the game is drastically different now in comparison to what it was then).

However, battle rappers don't have that problem. Battle rappers and rappers in general have the ability to evolve with the culture changes. Whether they choose to or not is completely up to them. Look at ALL-BORO, for instance. He started on LB well before LBA/LBT ever existed and he's the current LBA Champion. That's an accomplishment taken away from him that he earned all because of the rest of the people from his era aren't active anymore when they choose not to be. Is that fair to BORO? Absolutely not. What makes the old heads anymore special to where LBA/LBT can't be counted against them when one of their own from that era won it and is dominating with it as we speak?

Idk, I'm just not in to the whole handicapping thing with LBA/LBT, as it's been an important aspect of the site since it was first revived by RULE (s/o to @RULE for that, btw).

What's everyone else's thoughts on it?

Originally Posted by NOBLE

Some of those guys are never coming back. That's just a reality. If the whole point is to make an accurate comparison and then rank guys based on that comparison, you can't use factors that didn't exist when some guys were around. That's like ranking NBA greats and using the Slam Dunk contest as part of the rubric. There's no telling how Jerry West, for example, would've done in the Slam Dunk contest because it wasn't around when he was active. So it's a bit unfair to rate newer guys above him or give them more points because they won such contests and he didn't. You'd have to use (as much as possible) factors that have always been around to even the playing field when comparing guys from different eras.

Comparing battle rappers to NBA Legends isn't an accurate analogy. People obviously can't compete at a high level in the NBA for more than 10-15 years, so yeah it's fair to say you can't compare between different eras because the game changes (which is why the MJ/LeBron debate will never hold any weight because the game is drastically different now in comparison to what it was then).

However, battle rappers don't have that problem. Battle rappers and rappers in general have the ability to evolve with the culture changes. Whether they choose to or not is completely up to them. Look at ALL-BORO, for instance. He started on LB well before LBA/LBT ever existed and he's the current LBA Champion. That's an accomplishment taken away from him that he earned all because of the rest of the people from his era aren't active anymore when they choose not to be. Is that fair to BORO? Absolutely not. What makes the old heads anymore special to where LBA/LBT can't be counted against them when one of their own from that era won it and is dominating with it as we speak?

Idk, I'm just not in to the whole handicapping thing with LBA/LBT, as it's been an important aspect of the site since it was first revived by RULE (s/o to @RULE for that, btw).

What's everyone else's thoughts on it?

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

Comparing battle rappers to NBA Legends isn't an accurate analogy. People obviously can't compete at a high level in the NBA for more than 10-15 years, so yeah it's fair to say you can't compare between different eras because the game changes (which is why the MJ/LeBron debate will never hold any weight because the game is drastically different now in comparison to what it was then).

However, battle rappers don't have that problem. Battle rappers and rappers in general have the ability to evolve with the culture changes. Whether they choose to or not is completely up to them. Look at ALL-BORO, for instance. He started on LB well before LBA/LBT ever existed and he's the current LBA Champion. That's an accomplishment taken away from him that he earned all because of the rest of the people from his era aren't active anymore when they choose not to be. Is that fair to BORO? Absolutely not. What makes the old heads anymore special to where LBA/LBT can't be counted against them when one of their own from that era won it and is dominating with it as we speak?

Idk, I'm just not in to the whole handicapping thing with LBA/LBT, as it's been an important aspect of the site since it was first revived by RULE (s/o to @RULE for that, btw).

What's everyone else's thoughts on it?

For me, its not so much about the LBA/LBT as it is about total number of tournaments/ways of earning points available to the battlers and how much of that they win. I get what you're saying in that there's nothing stopping the old heads from coming back and that if they did, the LBT/LBA and all the new tournaments would be just as available to them as it is to those currently active. What I'm saying is if someone only had 4 tournaments available to them during the calendar year and they win two of them, that's 50 percent, whereas someone who has 10 tournaments available and wins two is at 20 percent. Both racked two tournament wins each, but I would consider the one who won 50 percent to be more successful whereas with this list, they're counted equally and its not weighted.

[NOBLE]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

Comparing battle rappers to NBA Legends isn't an accurate analogy. People obviously can't compete at a high level in the NBA for more than 10-15 years, so yeah it's fair to say you can't compare between different eras because the game changes (which is why the MJ/LeBron debate will never hold any weight because the game is drastically different now in comparison to what it was then).

However, battle rappers don't have that problem. Battle rappers and rappers in general have the ability to evolve with the culture changes. Whether they choose to or not is completely up to them. Look at ALL-BORO, for instance. He started on LB well before LBA/LBT ever existed and he's the current LBA Champion. That's an accomplishment taken away from him that he earned all because of the rest of the people from his era aren't active anymore when they choose not to be. Is that fair to BORO? Absolutely not. What makes the old heads anymore special to where LBA/LBT can't be counted against them when one of their own from that era won it and is dominating with it as we speak?

Idk, I'm just not in to the whole handicapping thing with LBA/LBT, as it's been an important aspect of the site since it was first revived by RULE (s/o to @RULE for that, btw).

What's everyone else's thoughts on it?

For me, its not so much about the LBA/LBT as it is about total number of tournaments/ways of earning points available to the battlers and how much of that they win. I get what you're saying in that there's nothing stopping the old heads from coming back and that if they did, the LBT/LBA and all the new tournaments would be just as available to them as it is to those currently active. What I'm saying is if someone only had 4 tournaments available to them during the calendar year and they win two of them, that's 50 percent, whereas someone who has 10 tournaments available and wins two is at 20 percent. Both racked two tournament wins each, but I would consider the one who won 50 percent to be more successful whereas with this list, they're counted equally and its not weighted.